My backup NAS died 😭

[jdownie]

I was running TrueNAS on an old HP MicroServer N40L. It was amazing, but sadly it’s DOA. I was only using it for infrequent backups of my main QNAP NAS.

So, this is all the excuse i need to replace it. I just want something that I can put all of my old drives into and backup onto. I’ve seen external USB enclosures that let you create a JBOD cluster.

I’m picturing a raspberry pi that i turn on once a fortnight (along with these hard drives) that rsyncs my data from my main NAS.

Any advice? Is this a good idea or am i just creating a pain for myself.

[Belfry]

Eep! Sorry to hear about the MicroServer, (and your post also prompts me to think about my own potentially precarious situation as I’m running an N36L and TrueNAS…)

I recall seeing a discussions a while ago about the power supply being the weakest link in those N36L/N40L series MicroServers, and that a PicoPSU was a good drop in replacement. I’m not sure what wattage would be needed, but that could be a relatively quick and easy (and cheap?) way to get back up and running if you wanted to keep the N40L.

The Raspberry Pi idea is interesting, but I’ve got no experience or knowledge as far as using them as a NAS or with a JBOD setup the way you’ve suggested. Recognising that it’s not your primary NAS and a second QNAP or new Gen10/11 MicroServer might be overkill, have you considered a second hand HP Z series or Lenovo ThinkCentre workstation? Not sure what a Pi sets you back now days, but for the price of a new Pi + USB enclosure you may not be far off a second hand workstation. As much as I love the MicroServer N36L I have, if I were to build a NAS now I’d probably get a workstation tower and pop as many drives in there as possible. I’m still regularly using a Z220 HP (they’re over 10 years old at this point, probably would want a Zx40 series or G4/G5 at the very least now days). They’re incredibly solid machines and give you a bit more flexibility (PCI-E, drive bays, etc.) if that machine were to be repurposed for something other than a NAS in the future. No personal experience with the ThinkCentres but I’d imagine they’re similarly robust.

Please let me know which route you end up going down because I’d say my [primary] NAS isn’t far behind!

Cheers,

Belfry

[jdownie]

I briefly got a bit excited about repairing that old MicroServer after reading your post. I pulled it apart (it was embarrassingly dusty) and found the part number for the PSU. A replacement part was doing to be a bit expensive. Not ridiculous, but enough to outweigh my other requirements.

I am currently using two old NAS’es, and it’s a bit of a pain to manage my backup jobs to carefully split the volume of data between both of them.

I think i’m gonna get one of these…

Icy Box External USB 10-Bay Single System USB-C 3.5 SATA Enclosure...

…and patch it through to a guest on one of my ProxMox hosts. As hard drives get abandoned because they are too small in my primary NAS they can join the party in this collection.

Anyway, RIP MicroServer.

[Belfry]

@jdownie

A replacement part was doing to be a bit expensive.

I haven’t pulled mine apart to check, but a quick look at some pictures suggests that it is probably a standard flex-ATX form factor power supply, ignoring any proprietary HP nonsense. Might be a bit cheaper to look at those (without the corresponding HP part number) at around $50-60 delivered. I happen to have a 1U server with flex PSU installed on the desk right now and at a glance looks really close to what is in the N36L and N40Ls.

Of course, feel free to ignore that if you need the excuse to buy new gear…!

[Belfry]

@Belfry

…probably a standard flex-ATX form factor power supply…

Curiosity got the better of me and I shut mine down to do some very quick measurements with a ruler. I’m now almost certain the power supply in those early MicroServers is standard Flex-ATX. Definitely the same screw pattern at the back, and the same dimensions as far as I can tell just by sliding a ruler down the side and doing some quick measurements. I’ll have some time in the morning if you’d like me to pull mine apart and send some photos or to send some pictures of the FSP150-50LE power supply I was comparing it against (Not suggesting that specific model as 150W is likely a bit low, but it’s Flex-ATX so the dimensions should be the same).

[techman]

A word of advice to everyone on the east coast re the most common Computer Failure Mode:

Warning, depressing tech advice follows. so if you can, just throw away your PC every 5 years and buy a brand new one, and don’t read on.

It’s the dust and the humidity!

The dust gets sucked into the PSU and the humidity makes it damp. In due course the damp dust shorts out 250VAC - 400VDC and goes BANG!

I’m a retired electronics technician, trust me on this

Back in the 1980’s when I used to maintain embedded DEC VAX controllers, they had a easily removable PSU that was easy to service and easy to clean. The downside was they cost about 10K USD each.

The modern PC is the embodiment of the absolute cheapest parts possible to make. That’s why in 1985 a EGA Olliveti Xt cost $10,000 AUD in 1985 dollars.

The bottom line ?
Every year you must take apart the PSU in your PC, clean it with either “carby cleaner” (toluene) using a toothbrush and remove all the dust and grime. Then you have to visually inspect it and clean the fan blades and oil the fan. It’s a real PITA, grimy, horrible and I hate it because the PSU must be spotless after the service. And the types of PSU’s we buy for $500 aren’t designed to be dismantled and cleaned, they are use to fail then throw away.

The high frequency and the big main capacitors in the PSU have to be replaced at 10,000 hours as well. Capacitors have a service life, they wont last forever. They’re consumable.

All your PC fans need to have the blades cleaned and the bearings oiled. All the cards and ram sticks etc must be removed, and the edge connectors cleaned.

This isn’t optional in the East of Australia, it must be done every year unless your PC is in a climate controlled computer room.

Buy a pack of that brown anti rust paper that slowly releases fumes to stop rust. Stick them to the inside metal panels of your PC cases, or they will rust, along with the metal brackets on your plug in cards.

This is all separate to all the other stuff, such as RAID and BACKUPS.

Owning a PC is a heavy maintenance burden and not cheap like a car, washing machine and bicycle!

Cheers,
Terry

[jdownie]

That’s very generous of you, but please don’t go to any trouble.

You have persuaded me to keep it and fix it one day. It has been an amazing machine, so i’d hate to see it go.

[Belfry]

@jdownie

You have persuaded me to keep it and fix it one day. It has been an amazing machine, so i’d hate to see it go.

No drama at all! I’ll have a closer look tomorrow at the MicroServer PSU itself if I have time in the morning and will definitely have a closer look at the few flex-ATX PSUs I have here to double check their dimensions. I have a vague recollection that these generation of MicroServers shared several parts with a model of Proliant server as well so I’ll have a brief hunt down that path too. Very happy to have saved an early MicroServer from e-waste, even it it’s only a temporary reprieve.

They really were mighty machines when they came out. I’ve got two of them - both 8GB ECC, both BIOS modded with the AHCI unlock, and both equipped with the [now useless due to their requirement for an ancient version of Java] iLO cards. One is the TrueNAS box with extra dual port gigabit NIC, 4x2TB drives in a ZFS array + a 128GB boot SSD (which was formerly a WHS 2011 machine), and the second is an ESXi 5.5 unit which hasn’t been switched on in many years. I managed to cram a HP Smart Array P212 controller with BBWC and 4x 15000 RPM SAS drives in that N36L. A completely unsupported configuration and it sounds like a jet engine, but it was fabulous for VMs, haha. I can’t bear to get rid of either of them because they’re such fantastic units. I’ve been intending at some stage to move the P212 card to the TrueNAS machine (or more likely move everything into the machine with the P212 because I remember it being a real pain to wrangle everything into that small space) and see if that improves the TrueNAS performance. I’d say those SAS drives are a relic of the past and even the most basic of SSDs a decade later probably outperform them.

@techman

The dust gets sucked into the PSU and the humidity makes it damp. In due course the damp dust shorts out 250VAC - 400VDC and goes BANG!

Of course - thank you! Over the years I’ve noticed that the machines I mess about with more (and therefore clean out more frequently) last longer and the cases don’t rust. I’d never quite taken that thought through to its logical conclusion and realised that it’s the combination of dust and moisture causing issues. A quick search for anti rust paper throws up a few results for VCI paper - is that what you’re referring to? I’d never heard of it and will have to look into it further. Thanks for sharing that as I’ve definitely learned something new.

@techman

The high frequency and the big main capacitors in the PSU have to be replaced at 10,000 hours as well. Capacitors have a service life, they wont last forever. They’re consumable.

I was fortunate (? feels like the wrong word to use there, haha) enough to live through the “badcaps” era while in a tech support role and saw heaps of RMAs with bulging or leaking capacitors. As such, when restoring things for use at home one of the first troubleshooting steps is to get the ESR meter out to measure the caps, check that the voltage rails are correct-ish, and replace anything even mildly suspicious looking with a shiny new Nichicon or Panasonic cap. I’ve got to throw my hands up beyond that point, as this is the sum total of my electronics knowledge, but it’s incredible how far that one troubleshooting step can go and how many faulty or intermittent things can be brought back into perfect service relatively easy!

[techman]

@jdownie

A quick search for anti rust paper throws up a few results for VCI paper - is that what you’re referring to?

Yes, it’s brown and comes in A4 sized paper sheets.

@Deepseek-r1:32b

Vapor Phase Inhibitor (VPI): Emits a chemical barrier without direct contact, effective in enclosed spaces

When selecting anti-corrosion paper:
Reputable brands like asti.com, MPC, and Rust-Oleum provide reliable solutions tailored to various sectors, ensuring effective corrosion protection.

[Belfry]

@jdownie Assuming that it is indeed the power supply that’s the issue and not the motherboard (should be able to briefly test that with a standard ATX power supply?):

The hardware maintenance manual lists HP part number 620827-001 for a 150W PSU, and 625147-001 for a 200W PSU (page 22), which translate to Delta DPS-150TBA and DPS200PB-177A respectively, both with dimensions of 40.5mm x 150.00mm x 81.5mm (page 91-92).

PartSurfer and EMPR, the Australian distributor’s website, seems to suggest that the 200W only ever came in the N36L but I have no idea if that’s correct or not (possibly how I got away with the SAS drives, haha). The PSU in yours might be 150W or 200W but either way, 40.5mm x 150.0mm x 81.5mm is Flex ATX. Some example mechanical drawings are in this PDF.

Should be plenty of new and second hand 150W+ Flex ATX power supplies out there (without an expensive HP sticker on them) on your online shop of choice which will provide whatever connectors are required and suit whether you want something branded (e.g., Delta or FSP) or unbranded, etc.

Hope that helps resurrect the mighty N40L!

[techman]

Further to my rant about PC PSU’s, I realised that probably no one here has ever seen a real PSU, designed to last forever, and that some may be curious about them.

• Cost: Perhaps $10k USD each
• Construction: Card cage with removable cards. These usually have a big heat sink, but rely on fans fitted in the computer enclosure to force air thru it.
• Cards: Usually at least 4 or 5 cards. They don’t have cheap edge connectors, but soldered on specialist gold plated connectors with small pins for signal carrying and larger ones where high currents are present. They will have test point turrets for easy probe attachment for testing and faultfinding. The layout will be something like this.

card 1:
Power, has all the large transistors/fets and heatsink plus mains input and rectification and special high frequency “Sprague Extralytic” capacitors. These run for 20+ years at 24/7 duty cycle and 20KHz. Also the large output toroid transformer.
card 2:
driver, this drives the power stage, idiot lights etc
card 3:
regulator electronics, monitors and controls all the outputs, perhaps 3v,5v,12V,24v etc, has the over-voltage crowbar and current limiting section as well.
card 4: contains the mains conditioning including fuses and spike removal toroid inductors etc

It’s built this way so it can be easily serviced, just pull the unit from the PC chassis, pull the cards (which are keywayed so they will only fit in the right slot) and inspect/clean them.

How were they cleaned ? They were put in a industrial heated ultrasonic tank full of some noxious inert liquid (but you’d never know it). From there they were inspected and tested then coated with a spray on conformal coating to resist damp dust etc.

What does a modern PC PSU look like inside ?
Firstly, they’re made with cost being the main design criteria. So that means they have everything that the PSU above has, but all parts are crammed onto one PCB.
Secondly, because there are no expensive internal card connectors, it’s a mad womans breakfast of wiring inside, usually too short to allow even removing the PCB from its case so you can work on it.
Thirdly, they use the lowest cost components as mentioned, caps that last 1000 - 10000 hours.

They aren’t designed to be serviced, they’re designed to be thrown away in five years. They never show a picture of the internals, but loudly and proudly show the pretty purple or orange anodized case, perhaps with a stamped lion logo and the name, something like “Gamerz LeeT Indigo Power”.

It’s all sales and marketing … no tech datasheet is ever supplied.

“But nothing lasts forever” you say ?
Have you seen Youtube videos of the Apollo Guidance Computer and DSKY designed in the 1960’s ?
How about a PDP-11 from the 1970’s ?
Oh yeah … and the DEC, VAX embedded controller

Cheers
Terry